Mod Post: So let's talk about this ableism thing.

[iambickilometer.livejournal.com]

Disclaimer: After writing this, I sent it to the other mods and some friends of mine to check to make sure it didn't say anything problematic, but if they or I missed something important or said something wrong, please don't hesitate to let me know. I'm still learning.

Something's been brought to our attention in regards to language people have been using re: disability, and problematic depictions thereof. It's great that we have a character in this fandom who is disabled, and it's great that there is a lot of interest in writing about him! But there are people on this meme who are also disabled, and insensitive or simply ignorant words can really hurt them. As our goal with this meme is to maintain a space where everyone present can feel comfortable participating, we'd like to keep this from happening, and we hope you feel the same way.

You may have noticed that "ableism" has been added to the list of triggers to warn for. If you're not familiar with the word, it refers to any speech, action, or treatment that hurts, oppresses, or discriminates against disabled people. Words like "cripple" and "gimp" fall into this category. Prompts using these words (with a few exceptions, noted below) will be deleted. So do stories that depict Charles' disability as disgusting or unacceptable, or erase it completely. Language like “the crippled man”, “the disabled man”, and “the handicapped man” focuses on his disability, perpetuating the common mindset that disabled people are only disabled, and never have any other defining traits.

Now, we're not going to ask you to stop writing these stories, because this is a kink meme and it is not our business what you choose to ask for or write about. But we do ask that you warn for it, if you think your prompt or fill contains it. Wanting stories about Charles and Erik having acrobatic post-movie sex does not make you a bad person, but that doesn't really matter to someone with a disability who reads it and is hurt by that erasure. Taking the time to consider if your content could hurt someone is just the considerate thing to do.

Likewise, it’s entirely possible to write about ableism without taking part in it yourself -- for instance, depicting Charles dealing with being visibly different for the first time and showing the ways people treat him. Unless they are part of the prompt (“someone calls Charles a “cripple”, cue him defending himself/the team defending him”), ableist slurs are unnecessary; comments in which the prompter casually uses them to refer to a character are unacceptable. But no matter how you write about it, any ableist content needs a warning.

The mods will treat this as any other warning issue: if we see ableist language or actions in your fill or prompt (or it's called to our attention by someone else) and there is no warning, we will ask you to post it again with that warning and delete the offending prompt or fill. We'd rather not do this, so please just be aware of what you're writing so that we can all enjoy this meme.

Please also be aware that we are not perfect; if you find unwarned-for ableist content that we haven’t caught, please feel free to contact the poster or us about it.

So to clarify: I am asking you to either change your wordings or warn for your content. Not because of politics or what bothers you, but because this is a space for everyone to enjoy their kinks and it's courteous to let people know that you've written content that might upset them.

And appended: took "crazy" out of the post because it's not that relevant to the discussion and I was informed that lumping mental and physical disabilities together was a bit insensitive, which, yes, I see now. I am leaving the computer for a while; if I don't get to replying to you in a timely fashion, that's why.

One more edit. Someone suggested having a "choose not to warn" option. Is this something people can agree on/ are interested in? It's not ideal but it seems like a good compromise so that we can all get back to the meme. 

Comments

Re: Mod Post

[(Anonymous)]

I do see ur point and I think it just how it came out. I'm really base on intent kind of person and with kink memes people usually warn for slash, violence, etc. more for people who want to read that then for people who don't, where as with this warning the intent is not to offend anyone which is just shady territory. I think its censorship in the spirit of the word meaning when rules limit a writers ability to fully express themselves. And a warning does do this especially when it is meant to limit offending people rather than encouraging ppl to read. While I know that we should seek to open minded ppl who try to offend a few, I think that people also deserve to express themselves freely. Mostly, however, the way this subject has been talked strongly suggest that it is wrong to talk about disabilities in a certain manner or give Charles the ability to walk when in actuality this viewpoint lies within a circle of opinion. But, anyway, I agree with person above and think a choose system might work out for the best.

Re: Mod Post

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I don't know how to address all the other things about censorship (I still disagree with the usage of the word) just because my opinion is simply: Writing a warning does not make you change your mindset, nor does it oppress you.

But I just want to emphasize that for a lot of people, warnings in kinkmemes aren't for people who want to read that subject. I don't know, would it even be called a 'warning' if so? It would be the genre, or the title of the prompt. I play around in two other kinkmemes and a lot of the time, people warn for rape, underage, inappropriate teacher/student relationship, torture, etc so that people can avoid reading that if it's not their cup of tea. I know I use warnings to avoid genres I dislike. I think this fairly different take to what warnings are for might be part of why you feel that way about this subject.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt. Urgh. I know how that feels. I've been taken aback when I'm imagining Charles in a wheelchair talking, doing stuff, and then he suddenly goes up the stairs and I'm like WHAT OH WAIT I SEE.

I don't know if it's expectations from different fandoms, but this is the first time I've had this AU label problem. Not that I'm saying all writers here do it, but it's just surprising that it happens.

[svilleficrecs.livejournal.com]

I vote in favor of the choose not to warn option, even though I generally like to warn.

[gogothgirl.livejournal.com]

noted, thank you :)

[kestrelct.livejournal.com]

Something that works for me is seeing a warning like "this fic is dark. more specific warnings would be spoilers -- email me if you want the details." That gives me a general heads-up so I can skip it if I'm in a fluff mood, or if I don't want to take the gamble that the content is something that really bothers me. Seeing "the author chose not to use warnings for this fic" would tell me much the same -- that there's warn-able content. This lets readers make a slightly more informed decision to read without giving too much away ahead of time. Sure, if I skip all fics with that warning to make sure I don't read any torture, which bothers me, it means I might be missing out on great fics that contain other violence, which doesn't, but that's a tradeoff I'm willing to make.

So my vote is for a nonspecific warning/notice that warnings would have been applicable had the author chosen to use them.

Re: Mod Post

[(Anonymous)]

That is a good point to make about warnings. I guess I have that one person's trash is another's treasures (aka one persons warning is another person's kink) type of mentality. :/ But thnx, glad to have this conversation

[(Anonymous)]

I would really love a choose not to warn option. When warnings requirements are this nebulous (which- I'm not saying it's your fault, because ableism etc *are* hard things to define) I get so caught up in whether I should warn or what I should warn for that I never even finish the story. If there's a caveat lector option for stories that aren't clear-cut, it relieves a lot of anxiety.

[(Anonymous)]

If you really don't understand why people are finding it difficult, here are a couple things off the top of my head:

1. People will generally, I think, accept that ableism is bad, at least in the abstract. So when you are saying "Label your stories where Charles isn't disabled with 'abelism'" it may be making people feel like their stories are bad, or they are ableist (which is bad) for wanting those stories. (Some people will say "good!" or at least, "Well, they should think about *why* they want those stories, because that desire may be rooted in ableism." People aren't really going to *like* those answers. Hence, difficulties.)

2. You're saying that people don't have to be right all the time, but if there's an objection they should add a warning. This presupposes that the people objecting are "right", and that there is a "right", which... sometimes yes sometimes no? Obviously, those people are "right" in saying that they personally were offended, but the people writing the stories may feel like putting that warning on their stories is incorrect. And a lot of those people will be clueless CAB* folks who are overlooking their privilege, but some of those people might in fact be disabled folks who just don't fucking want to deal with disability in their story because they deal with it in their lives. Or they deal with it a different way than the person objecting. (There is... a lot of difference between how people deal with disability and the way people deal with other identities, I think. Many similarities, but in a lot of ways, disability isn't the same as race, gender, sexuality.)
Then, like one poster already has, they have to pull out the "Well, in fact, I am also disabled!" thing, or be called clueless and privileged etc. Not everybody wants to do that, and they really shouldn't have to. And then we get into "You just have internalized ableism!" and that is never, ever a fun conversation.

3. Warnings do, in fact, sometimes change the way a person reads a story. Personally, I generally like warnings. I read fanfiction mostly for comfort, so I like knowing what I'm getting into. Others feel that takes away from the joy of reading- you prepare yourself and don't get to feel the full emotional punch. Some people want that punch and so when they write the story, they feel like labels are taking something away. Hence the popularity of the grey-on-grey warnings- which are not possible in anon comments and so not possible here.

I'm not arguing that any of these things are the correct stance, incidentally. As a reader, I like warnings. As a writer, I find them paralyzing. (Fortunately I don't write much, so I don't have to deal with this conflict often.) I think making fandom a better space for marginalized folks is a really great goal, though I don't actually know if warnings are the key to that. (Not that I have any great solutions myself, you understand.) Just that these are possible reasons for pushback.

[(Anonymous)]

*CAB- currently able bodied.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, and I was going to add! I think choose not to warn is a good way to allow for people who have these objections (and others) to co-exist with people who want warnings.

Okay, now I'm done.

[(Anonymous)]

For the people who want a chose not to warn option: what other meme has this?

[americanaviator.livejournal.com]

Anon, you deserve a beer, a sandwich and a blowjob, all at once.
Whenever you want.
From someone hot.

I love you c: ♥

[coffeeandfrogs.livejournal.com]

I'm a couple days behind this whole issue, but I didn't realize that wanting an AU where Charles wasn't disabled made me an ableist. I thought it was just me wanting something of a happier ending for my pairing of choice.

Like you, even though I have a best friend who has a disability, I still don't feel comfortable writing about a disability like this. Especially when sex is involved.

[(Anonymous)]

Who is calling you an ableist?

[coffeeandfrogs.livejournal.com]

This is the interpretation I'm getting from this whole situation.

Though to be honest, I might just be so damned confused that I think I'm going to just skip making any prompts for a while and just watch what goes on.

[texmas.livejournal.com]

Seconded on all counts.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, you sound confused because so far I have yet to see anyone calling anyone else an ableist.

[(Anonymous)]

Don't know about memes, but Ao3 have options for "No Archive Warnings Apply", specific content warnings (Character death, non-con etc) and "Author Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings" which I tend to assume means miscellaneous/spoilery warning (though I may be hugely off base).

[(Anonymous)]

For me at least, saying that a world where Charles isn't disabled is 'a happier ending' is a problem. Plenty of people with disabilities have incredibly happy, fulfilling lives. Maybe you meant 'a world where Erik didn't hurt Charles so profoundly,' but it definitely tips toward erasure. Does that make sense?

[(Anonymous)]

It just irritates me that I'm at this point where I start reading a post-movie fic and I have no idea if Charles is supposed to be in a wheelchair or not until the author offhandedly writes a moment where Charles is walking about.

That's actually a really good point -- it's not just about ablism, it's about wanting to know wtf you're reading.

[(Anonymous)]

Late to the game, but is it established movie canon that Charles is permanently paralyzed? Or are we all just assuming based on the comics? Because the film is not the same universe as the comics ...

[paper-tzipporah.livejournal.com]

O HAI, I KNOW YOU. FANCY SEEING YOU IN THIS KINK MEME.

Catch up and share links sometime?

[kestrelct.livejournal.com]

It's a small internet after all! I've just been powering my way through the memes from the beginnings...I'm too voracious to really come up with links on memes.

[yeomanrand.livejournal.com]

My recommendation is to avoid the rich text editor at all costs, but even that doesn't always work.